Yes, please don’t be a single-issue voter. There is no perfection in politics, so don’t pretend that this is the only thing that matters and pursue to make your vote meaningless. A lost vote from you is a vote for them.
One of the golden rules in life is you should act like you want everyone to act.
If everyone voted for what they truly wanted and believed in, there would be no more political duopolies.
I know that’s easy for me to say because I have proportional representation, but I don’t think you should ever try to shame someone for voting with their conscience.
If everyone voted for what they truly wanted and believed in, there would be no more political duopolies.
I agree. However, this is not the reality we live in. If you vote for a candidate that gets 2% of votes, then they will lose, and the leading candidate that represents your party will not get your vote. This gives your political opponents an advantage by your choosing.
That’s the spoiler effect created by a first past the post system. You won’t get to the first result unless you change how voting works. A good way to get there is to start local instead of what most people do which is nothing until federal elections, then whine how the system isn’t giving them good candidates.
“don’t vote for genocide” equals “don’t be a single issue voter” lmao. US is fucked, the lack of morality in the country is laid bare even to people who used to believe in the “good guys” rhetoric
Lol seriously though. My jaw literally dropped reading the comment you just replied to. I’m so glad I don’t live in the states. That attitude is an absolute embarrassment to the rest of the world.
Right, the voting system is bad. I don’t like it, either. However, if the dominating candidates are Biden and Trump, and you voted for lesser Democrat candidate, then Biden doesn’t get your vote. If Biden gets too little votes, then your next president is Trump. You wouldn’t have chosen it explicitly, but it is your implicit vote.
That being said, if Biden has some strong competition and another candidate is appearing favorable, then it makes sense to vote for them. Voting for someone you know is going to lose is just acting in principle without making any impact on the election.
Personally, I believe that Trump would deliver significantly more harm than most candidates. He’s the Republican leader.
I don’t agree with a handful of things that Biden has done. I believe that the situation with Hamas and Israel is much more nuanced than “arm Israel to the teeth.” We’re on the same page with this.
I can decide that I don’t like Biden because of his stance with Israel, and choose to vote for another candidate. Let’s say that the election is extremely close between Biden and Trump. And let’s say that there is a reasonable amount of people like me, who have decided not to vote for Biden.
If enough people do what I would be doing, and vote for a candidate that might get 5% of votes or so, then that’s 5% of the vote that could have gone to defeating Trump. However, because the election was so close, Trump wins.
If you protest the majority candidate in the election, you might as well check the box for your opponent and submit your vote. Voting is a dumb game that shouldn’t be a dumb game, but it is what it is.
Biden has literally said “I am a zionist” and is currently blocking resolutions for an immediate cease fire. He is complicit in a genocide. Do you understand what that is?
If nobody votes 3rd party, nothing changes. Ever. You got so pigeonholled into thinking “these are the only two choices :<” that you would rather vote for a genocide committing president than anyone else.
I say this as someone who’s going to vote third party - Trump and Biden are the only two choices. One of them is going to win, period. I’m voting third party because I know beyond reasonable doubt which one is going to win my state, so I have the privilege of throwing away my vote. I can’t fault someone for voting on a “lesser evil” basis in a swing state.
Maybe it won’t make an impact this election, but if people start voting for third parties regardless, the Democrats would be incentivised to do better and/or to introduce ranked-choice voting.
In any case, people need to stop waiting for elections and to start taking action now.
There certainly are ways to vote for your party that will result in your party being weaker, therefore making the opposing party stronger. Call it whatever you want.
Personally, I believe that Trump would deliver significantly more harm than most candidates. He’s the Republican leader.
I don’t agree with a handful of things that Biden has done. I believe that the situation with Hamas and Israel is much more nuanced than “arm Israel to the teeth.” We’re on the same page with this.
I can decide that I don’t like Biden because of his stance with Israel, and choose to vote for another candidate. Let’s say that the election is extremely close between Biden and Trump. And let’s say that there is a reasonable amount of people like me, who have decided not to vote for Biden.
If enough people do what I would be doing, and vote for a candidate that might get 5% of votes or so, then that’s 5% of the vote that could have gone to defeating Trump. However, because the election was so close, Trump wins.
If you protest the majority candidate in the election, you might as well check the box for your opponent and submit your vote. Voting is a dumb game that shouldn’t be a dumb game, but it is what it is.
Every fucking presidential candidate will continue the US policies that have been in place for decades. That includes Jill Stein, Cornell West, anybody. They will all continue to supply arms to Israel, because no president is going to revolutionize the entire US political system.
You don’t stop genocide by hopes-and-dreams voting for an incompetent candidate who has no chance of winning, thus securing the presidency for the party that promises more genocide. That’s how you make the problem far, far worse.
You wanna stop genocide? Start with your Representatives and Senators and convince them to forbid the president from taking military action without a formal declaration of war.
“Incompetent” is a stretch. No chance of winning, perhaps, but that’s only true because the two major parties continue to work together to make it true. Colluding with a fledgling fascist dictator to lock out other competition and then smirking about “wasted votes” maybe be stabard operating procedure but it shouldn’t be.
Trump is a monster. Biden is not a good person. Let’s kick then both to the curb and agree to support someone who isn’t an objectively terrible person.
You’re right; incompetent is a stretch. Some of them probably are, but others are just… I don’t know, out of touch with reality? And others are probably there knowing they will lose, but showing up anyway just to make their presence known for one reason or another, whether naive idealism, or cynical attention-grabbing.
I’d love to kick both Trump and Biden to the curb, truly. Well, a little farther than the curb for Trump. But the only way to do that is to change the way the system works. There is no scenario where a) it is realistically possible to elect a 3rd party candidate, and b) a 3rd party candidate, if elected, would have the ability to make any meaningful change to the system.
Remember, we’re talking about changing election law here. And who is responsible for changing laws? Not the president. It’s the legislature.
If we want something like a viable Green Party or Libertarian Party or whatever, we need to focus on the legislature, not the presidency. If we want to eliminate FTTP winner-take-all elections for the presidency, we need to focus on the legislature, not the presidency.
And believe me, I do want all of that. Which is why the puritanical grandstanding about protest votes by people who don’t seem to understand the fundamental rules of US government is so painfully frustrating. If people were half as passionate about actual politics as they are about arguing badly about politics on lemmy, change would be possible. Instead, they are bamboozled time and time again, like clockwork, every four years by political insiders who feed them the notion that a protest vote that help the worst possible candidate is the most meaningful action they can take.
Yep. What’s truly disappointing is that the voters in one of those major parties are extremely comfortable being complicit in genocide et al. It is entirely within their power to demand that their own party field someone less terrible… but they do not for reasons that only make sense if one looks at the process as one that values winning over all.
I agree that the system is broken. But the process that favors the two parties need not be used to field terrible candidates. THAT part of the process is 100% the responsibility of those who vote for those parties. If the candidates are terrible, then the blame for that rest solely on their shoulders.
Biden has a terrible history of friendship and collusion with racists, bigots, etc. Currently, he’s a genocide apologist. I would LOVE it if the Democrats fielded someone I could get behind. It’s not about one issue, it’s about asking for a bare minimum level of humanity. “Not a bigoted genocide apologist” should not be a stretch goal.
I don’t disagree with your assessment of Biden, but you’re saying this like he’s not the better choice of the two. Everything you accuse him of is amplified by entire magnitudes with anyone in the GOP.
And let’s be real here, Israel has been a central pillar of US policy for generations. There are one or two high-ranking politicians in the entire government who don’t support Israel, but they have zero chance of becoming president. Biden is being chosen not because of one belief or another, it’s because of his track record and his experience. He is capable of one of the most important jobs of the office, which is working with the rest of the government, even the people who hate you, to get shit done.
The Democrats have a membership of millions. If they find someone who isn’t objectively a garbage person, I guarantee they win. You’ll still see the “must vote blue” crowd vote D because let’s be real, they’ll do as they’re told every time. And you’ll also get the votes of the people who believe in a better world.
Win win, but the millions of D voters will continue to sell the line that they are powerless to sway thier own party.
I don’t know who’s selling this line you think is being sold. I’ll happily vote for a better Democrat than Biden. And I don’t know of anybody who is so enamored with Biden that they’d throw a temper tantrum if he wasn’t the nominee. I actually don’t know what you’re arguing here other than saying “a better person than Biden would be better.” Which is true, but it’s just a tautology.
You think voting for the GOP isn’t voting for genocide? On top of handing Ukraine over and tearing out the rights of women minorities and LGBTQ. Consolidating power into the hands of Trump with the 2025 project is somehow “not voting for genocide?”
Personally, I believe that Trump would deliver significantly more harm than most candidates. He’s the Republican leader.
I don’t agree with a handful of things that Biden has done. I believe that the situation with Hamas and Israel is much more nuanced than “arm Israel to the teeth.” We’re on the same page with this.
I can decide that I don’t like Biden because of his stance with Israel, and choose to vote for another candidate. Let’s say that the election is extremely close between Biden and Trump. And let’s say that there is a reasonable amount of people like me, who have decided not to vote for Biden.
If enough people do what I would be doing, and vote for a candidate that might get 5% of votes or so, then that’s 5% of the vote that could have gone to defeating Trump. However, because the election was so close, Trump wins.
If you protest the majority candidate in the election, you might as well check the box for your opponent and submit your vote. Voting is a dumb game that shouldn’t be a dumb game, but it is what it is.
Yeah he is the lesser of two evils. I think we all know that. The idea is that some people would rather not take part in the farce known as American elections of the lesser of two evils is still going to support genocide.
The idea is that some people would rather not take part in the farce known as American elections of the lesser of two evils is still going to support genocide.
that is not supporting genocide. it’s opposing it.
Yes, please don’t be a single-issue voter. There is no perfection in politics, so don’t pretend that this is the only thing that matters and pursue to make your vote meaningless. A lost vote from you is a vote for them.
One of the golden rules in life is you should act like you want everyone to act.
If everyone voted for what they truly wanted and believed in, there would be no more political duopolies.
I know that’s easy for me to say because I have proportional representation, but I don’t think you should ever try to shame someone for voting with their conscience.
I agree. However, this is not the reality we live in. If you vote for a candidate that gets 2% of votes, then they will lose, and the leading candidate that represents your party will not get your vote. This gives your political opponents an advantage by your choosing.
@Synthead what if 8 out of 10 of you want to vote for a third part candidate but you won’t in case they lose.
Honest voting might look like Candidate A = 2 votes, Candidate B = 6 votes, Candidate C = 13 votes
But status-quo voting gets you Candidate A =10 votes, candidat B = 11 votes, Candidate C = no votes
That’s the spoiler effect created by a first past the post system. You won’t get to the first result unless you change how voting works. A good way to get there is to start local instead of what most people do which is nothing until federal elections, then whine how the system isn’t giving them good candidates.
This is where ranked choice voting would help.
deleted by creator
It’s a golden rule in life, but not in a two-party first-past-the-post political system. In that system, it’s a dogshit rule.
Except it isn’t.
“don’t vote for genocide” equals “don’t be a single issue voter” lmao. US is fucked, the lack of morality in the country is laid bare even to people who used to believe in the “good guys” rhetoric
Lol seriously though. My jaw literally dropped reading the comment you just replied to. I’m so glad I don’t live in the states. That attitude is an absolute embarrassment to the rest of the world.
Right, the voting system is bad. I don’t like it, either. However, if the dominating candidates are Biden and Trump, and you voted for lesser Democrat candidate, then Biden doesn’t get your vote. If Biden gets too little votes, then your next president is Trump. You wouldn’t have chosen it explicitly, but it is your implicit vote.
That being said, if Biden has some strong competition and another candidate is appearing favorable, then it makes sense to vote for them. Voting for someone you know is going to lose is just acting in principle without making any impact on the election.
So literally “vote for genocide”.
The opposite, actually. It’s a lesser of evils.
Personally, I believe that Trump would deliver significantly more harm than most candidates. He’s the Republican leader.
I don’t agree with a handful of things that Biden has done. I believe that the situation with Hamas and Israel is much more nuanced than “arm Israel to the teeth.” We’re on the same page with this.
I can decide that I don’t like Biden because of his stance with Israel, and choose to vote for another candidate. Let’s say that the election is extremely close between Biden and Trump. And let’s say that there is a reasonable amount of people like me, who have decided not to vote for Biden.
If enough people do what I would be doing, and vote for a candidate that might get 5% of votes or so, then that’s 5% of the vote that could have gone to defeating Trump. However, because the election was so close, Trump wins.
If you protest the majority candidate in the election, you might as well check the box for your opponent and submit your vote. Voting is a dumb game that shouldn’t be a dumb game, but it is what it is.
Biden has literally said “I am a zionist” and is currently blocking resolutions for an immediate cease fire. He is complicit in a genocide. Do you understand what that is?
If nobody votes 3rd party, nothing changes. Ever. You got so pigeonholled into thinking “these are the only two choices :<” that you would rather vote for a genocide committing president than anyone else.
I say this as someone who’s going to vote third party - Trump and Biden are the only two choices. One of them is going to win, period. I’m voting third party because I know beyond reasonable doubt which one is going to win my state, so I have the privilege of throwing away my vote. I can’t fault someone for voting on a “lesser evil” basis in a swing state.
Trump would support turning Gaza into a field of glass, but by all means, tell yourself you’re helping.
Then don’t vote for Trump or Biden? Holy shit you people are hopeless
The US is the most propagandized country in the world, you’re fighting decades of programing.
Maybe it won’t make an impact this election, but if people start voting for third parties regardless, the Democrats would be incentivised to do better and/or to introduce ranked-choice voting.
In any case, people need to stop waiting for elections and to start taking action now.
there is no such thing as an implicit vote.
There certainly are ways to vote for your party that will result in your party being weaker, therefore making the opposing party stronger. Call it whatever you want.
do you mean like putting up a pro-genocide candidate in the primary?
Re-posting a reply for a similar comment:
the only people responsible for electing anyone are the people who vote for them. please consider whether you want to vote for genocide.
Every fucking presidential candidate will continue the US policies that have been in place for decades. That includes Jill Stein, Cornell West, anybody. They will all continue to supply arms to Israel, because no president is going to revolutionize the entire US political system.
You don’t stop genocide by hopes-and-dreams voting for an incompetent candidate who has no chance of winning, thus securing the presidency for the party that promises more genocide. That’s how you make the problem far, far worse.
You wanna stop genocide? Start with your Representatives and Senators and convince them to forbid the president from taking military action without a formal declaration of war.
“Incompetent” is a stretch. No chance of winning, perhaps, but that’s only true because the two major parties continue to work together to make it true. Colluding with a fledgling fascist dictator to lock out other competition and then smirking about “wasted votes” maybe be stabard operating procedure but it shouldn’t be.
Trump is a monster. Biden is not a good person. Let’s kick then both to the curb and agree to support someone who isn’t an objectively terrible person.
You’re right; incompetent is a stretch. Some of them probably are, but others are just… I don’t know, out of touch with reality? And others are probably there knowing they will lose, but showing up anyway just to make their presence known for one reason or another, whether naive idealism, or cynical attention-grabbing.
I’d love to kick both Trump and Biden to the curb, truly. Well, a little farther than the curb for Trump. But the only way to do that is to change the way the system works. There is no scenario where a) it is realistically possible to elect a 3rd party candidate, and b) a 3rd party candidate, if elected, would have the ability to make any meaningful change to the system.
Remember, we’re talking about changing election law here. And who is responsible for changing laws? Not the president. It’s the legislature.
If we want something like a viable Green Party or Libertarian Party or whatever, we need to focus on the legislature, not the presidency. If we want to eliminate FTTP winner-take-all elections for the presidency, we need to focus on the legislature, not the presidency.
And believe me, I do want all of that. Which is why the puritanical grandstanding about protest votes by people who don’t seem to understand the fundamental rules of US government is so painfully frustrating. If people were half as passionate about actual politics as they are about arguing badly about politics on lemmy, change would be possible. Instead, they are bamboozled time and time again, like clockwork, every four years by political insiders who feed them the notion that a protest vote that help the worst possible candidate is the most meaningful action they can take.
Yep. What’s truly disappointing is that the voters in one of those major parties are extremely comfortable being complicit in genocide et al. It is entirely within their power to demand that their own party field someone less terrible… but they do not for reasons that only make sense if one looks at the process as one that values winning over all.
I agree that the system is broken. But the process that favors the two parties need not be used to field terrible candidates. THAT part of the process is 100% the responsibility of those who vote for those parties. If the candidates are terrible, then the blame for that rest solely on their shoulders.
Biden has a terrible history of friendship and collusion with racists, bigots, etc. Currently, he’s a genocide apologist. I would LOVE it if the Democrats fielded someone I could get behind. It’s not about one issue, it’s about asking for a bare minimum level of humanity. “Not a bigoted genocide apologist” should not be a stretch goal.
I don’t disagree with your assessment of Biden, but you’re saying this like he’s not the better choice of the two. Everything you accuse him of is amplified by entire magnitudes with anyone in the GOP.
And let’s be real here, Israel has been a central pillar of US policy for generations. There are one or two high-ranking politicians in the entire government who don’t support Israel, but they have zero chance of becoming president. Biden is being chosen not because of one belief or another, it’s because of his track record and his experience. He is capable of one of the most important jobs of the office, which is working with the rest of the government, even the people who hate you, to get shit done.
The Democrats have a membership of millions. If they find someone who isn’t objectively a garbage person, I guarantee they win. You’ll still see the “must vote blue” crowd vote D because let’s be real, they’ll do as they’re told every time. And you’ll also get the votes of the people who believe in a better world.
Win win, but the millions of D voters will continue to sell the line that they are powerless to sway thier own party.
I don’t know who’s selling this line you think is being sold. I’ll happily vote for a better Democrat than Biden. And I don’t know of anybody who is so enamored with Biden that they’d throw a temper tantrum if he wasn’t the nominee. I actually don’t know what you’re arguing here other than saying “a better person than Biden would be better.” Which is true, but it’s just a tautology.
You think voting for the GOP isn’t voting for genocide? On top of handing Ukraine over and tearing out the rights of women minorities and LGBTQ. Consolidating power into the hands of Trump with the 2025 project is somehow “not voting for genocide?”
Then how about not voting for genocide at all?
Would be nice but a vote for 3rd or no vote is still a vote in FPTP. I don’t get why this is so hard for people to understand
no vote is NOT a vote.
no one is saying they are going to vote for the gop.
I love this tagging feature. Makes it so much easier to spot time wasting trolls.
calling people names doesn’t undermine their position. you’re just telling on yourself.
Their position does that all on its own
Way to go, great job sumarizing an entire person to “hates seeing politics”. It automatically refutes any argument I might have against GENOCIDE.
Okay I think it’s fine to be a single-issue voter if your single issue is genocide.
Re-posting a reply for a similar comment:
Yeah he is the lesser of two evils. I think we all know that. The idea is that some people would rather not take part in the farce known as American elections of the lesser of two evils is still going to support genocide.
that is not supporting genocide. it’s opposing it.
To be faced with two evils and to not choose the lesser one is crazy. Why would you ever not prefer the lesser evil!?
Please explain how trump would be anything but worse than Biden. I’ll wait
What policies worse than Biden did he make in his actual presidency? When will you realise nothing will change?
I don’t play this game anymore. If you had a genuine question, in 2023 you probably wouldn’t be asking it for the first time