That a China-backed militia is staying out of the conflict seems to me like it actually confirms that China wants to be neutral. And since you tried to pass this off as some sort of evidence for your claim that China is arming both sides, which it clearly isn’t, while not mentioning they are on neither side, makes me think you’re just trying to bullshit me.

This China-backed Wa State Army seems to be staying neutral in this conflict though?

Pretty big claim that China, who seem pretty neutral on this conflict, are actually the puppet masters behind it. Even weirder since you’re basically accusing them of arming both sides. Why would they do that? Where’s the evidence for any of it?

Depends on the reason they support Israel, I guess. If, like in Germany, it’s justified because Jews are some special kind of people unlike others, that need a separate country just for themselves, because it’s supposedly impossible for them to live safely in our society. That shit is some twisted form of antisemitism.

Oho, is that so? Have you looked at literally any comment section anywhere in the German-speaking internet (and I’m not just talking about conservative newspapers): There’s a ton of shit that goes unmoderated and barely pushed back on, about how Islam is a barbaric religion, they’re backwards culture is just incompatible with “our enlightenment values”, they should assimilate or get out, and so on. People speak like this real life too, I’m like bio-German and people will say shit like that to me, and except me to agree with them. They’re very surprised when they get pushback. Some quite openly, others sort of couched in some way so as not to appear too racist.

And that Germans have a super weird complex about Jews is 100% true. They’re like a prop they get out whenever it’s convenient, usually to make themselves look humble and reformed. Meanwhile, literally every politician is constantly proclaiming unconditional support for Israel as a “Jewish state”, that has a “right to exist” and “right to defend itself”, which actually means (though that’s not usually spelled out explicitly) to have a Jewish ethnostate, to not let Palestinians return from the areas they were ethnically cleansed from, and to slaughter Palestinians for daring to fight back against what is actually an attack, and not in any way “defense”. To deny any rights of Palestinians basically.

This is a fact. They pretend Germany is “importing antisemitism”, as if that needs importing. And somehow, someone that comes here, fleeing a genocide committed by Zionists, is clearly the real antisemite when they complain about it, because apparently no one could object to this treatment unless they hate Jews for no reason.

The easiest way to project this outward to the public is to support the only state founded upon Jewish tradition, in comparison to the plethora of Christian or Islamic tradition ones.

Well I guess that justifies the ethnic cleansing then, since it’s for the high-minded goal of creating an ethnostate for Jews. Who could object to that? Are Jews special in your mind to deserve an ethnostate? What about all the other historically oppressed groups? Maybe we should support creating ethnostates for them as well? And ethnically cleanse all the people currently living there?

It shouldn’t come as a surprise that Germans still are racist, genocide-supporting pieces-of-shit, particularly if you know what a joke denazification was. I should know, I grew up here.

The whole society is antisemitic, which is why they support Israel: The crypto-fascists can pretend not to be antisemitic by getting the all-clear by the “official” Jewish representative on earth, Israel, while at the same time secretly celebrating the fact that many Jews would rather go to Israel than return to Germany.

The rest, which like to think of themselves as not racist, have developed a fetish towards Jews and Israel. A kind of “positive” racism, in which Jews (assumed to be one and the same as Israel) are not held to the same standard as everybody else. They should be allowed to ethnically cleanse and have an apartheid-ethnostate because of how extra fragile they are. In a German’s mind, all Jews are Zionists, they all deserve to steal land from Palestinians, and anyone who objects to this is clearly antisemitic, since that’s basically what present-day Judaism is all about. They’re not only playing into the hands of old-school antisemitism by insinuating that all Jews are, in fact, responsible for the horrific crimes of Israel: they’re painting a total caricature of Jews and Judaism at the same time. They are, therefore, racists.

And then, of course, there’s a the other racism: Islamophobia. Hating on Muslims is a perfectly normalized and widespread, even among “lefty” liberals. And to a German, a Palestinian is just another kind of Muslim, really.

Klitschko, the mayor of Kyiv, is saying this in an interview with German mainstream outlet Der Spiegel, and this is here reported by Ukrainian newspaper Kyiv Independent. Your assessment: Russian propaganda.

do you view Russia as a liberal democratic state? I’m sorry but are you out of your mind? And surely they are not led by ordinary people but by a class of oligarchs

All liberal “democratic” states are ruled by a class of oligarchs/capitalists, and not by ordinary people. Why are you citing evidence that’s perfectly compatible with a liberal “democracy” as if it was somehow at odds with it?

No cost is too great

Eat shit.

I always referred to Putin as fascist, not Nazi.

Previously:

And let the Nazis recoup and build up forces… just like allowing Putin to do so when he had asked for a ceasefire before.

Putin could have stopped […]. But like Hitler, he wanted more

You compared Putin to Hitler and the Nazis, and explicitly drew your conclusions from this comparison. Maybe don’t draw conclusions if the analogy is bad? But you did that not because it’s a good analogy, but because it’s a neat shortcut for dismissing any call for diplomacy without having to make a coherent argument.

The fact that you then dismiss state-funded and state-promoted Azov as “there are neo-Nazis in all countries” kinda makes it clear you don’t really care about fascism

Putin himself have used neo-Nazi groups to his own benefit. There are plenty of those groups linked to Kremlin, nevermind Putin cosying with and funding far-right political parties.

That’s not a response to my point about you downplaying fascism in Ukraine. Funding far-right groups in other countries is something liberals do all the time, just look at all the far-right parties, regimes and insurgents the US has supported over the years. But you’re claiming the US isn’t fascist, so you have to extend the same leeway to Russia here. Liberals support and work with fascists all the time.

What is exceptional is how Ukraine very openly supports and glorifies Azov “heroes”, promotes fascist Banderite ideology, and criminalizes all left-wing parties and orgs. This is actually pretty weird for a liberal democracy, and you are pretending this is totally normal. Since you’re not at all concerned about this, I conclude you’re not opposed to fascism, you’re just opposed to Russia. You used fascism (well, Nazis before you backtracked) as a shortcut argument for why Russia can’t be talked to, without being able to substantiate what exactly is uniquely fascists about Russia (apart from I guess Ilyin, which you very well know nobody’s going to read in order to find out, so that’s more of a “trust me it’s fascist and trust me Putin loves that shit”). And btw, I’m not going to watch a Kraut video, from what I gather he’s a dipshit and I don’t want to.

Even if we, for the sake of argument, pretend like Russia is fascist, it doesn’t follow that they want to conquer Europe, will never stop, can’t be reasoned with, will commit genocide if not stopped, or whatever. That’s actually part of your Hitler analogy, and I already went over why that one is bad.

Even if that’s the case, you don’t invade another country. No one is saying to invade Saudi Arabia to “de-Wahabbisised” the country for radicalising Muslims across the world. Funny that Russian apologists ignore those analogies, don’t they? I’m sure you’ll ignore this as well.

I never even fucking argued that Putin is fighting this war because he wants to denazify Ukraine, since I don’t believe this. I’m pointing out this: You’re making the argument that Putin must be opposed at all costs because he is a fascist in bad faith, since you downplay and excuse the very obvious fascism that infests the Ukrainian state, which you support. That fascism is a lot more obvious to me than the alleged Russian one.

In your other comments you did specifically mention Hitler and Nazis, now you’re “ok ok not Nazis more like some other fascist”. Goal-post shifting much? Your logic was basically “Hitler won’t stop and wants to conquer”, but not every fascist set out for world conquest. Even if you conceded this is some kind of fascism, you need to actually analyze what the Russian goals actually are. Just going “that’s just what fascists do” is not enough.

Btw I have heard all this stuff about Ilyin and Dugin or whatever before. This seems like pretty weak sauce to me, I’m sure you can find some influential fascist-ish writer or another in pretty much any liberal’s bookshelf, especially a politician’s. I suggest you try to play your game of “find the fascist influence” with Britain, or France, or the US.

The fact that you then dismiss state-funded and state-promoted Azov as “there are neo-Nazis in all countries” kinda makes it clear you don’t really care about fascism, because no one who looks at this thinks this normal in any way, even for liberals. They declared Bandera a national hero in parliament already in 2010 or so, and that was before they outlawed all the left-wing parties. They put up statues and named streets after these people everywhere. Zelensky himself has done a bunch of photo ops with the Azovs (he even suprise-broadcast Azovs directly into the Greek parliament – they were not happy). They took in full-throated Russian Neo-Nazis that had fled persecution, gave them a bunch Bradleys and other weapons, and told them to raid across the border in the north. The Ukrainian propaganda then celebrated this is as some massive win for all the world to see, and they do this shit in their propaganda all the time. Open fascist propaganda combined with massive repression of leftists.

But according to you, that’s totally normal and not fascism, but I guess Putin might be influenced by some writer, and, to get back on point, that’s why he’s Hitler and you can’t reason with him and we need to fight to the deeeaaath!

You know what actually reminds me of Hitler? It’s this fucking death cult of fighting to the bitter end.

Let’s look at some hallmarks of the Nazi regime and compare this to Russia, shall we?

Ethnonationalism? Russian nationalism is multi-ethnic, quite unlike Nazi ideology. The state-promoted Ukrainian Banderites, on the other hand, love to go on about the difference between white Europeans and “asiatic” Russian orcs.

Brownshirts? United Russia does not have a bunch of SA-like street thugs. But in Ukraine I’ve seen pictures of Right Sector & co that look exactly like that.

Anti-communism? Most types of communists are tolerated in Russia to some degree. Ukraine, on the other hand, has outlawed all left-wing parties and criminalized communist symbols.

War as a first resort? Putin was in power for 20 years before he started this alleged master plan of conquering half of Europe. Hitler always wanted to go to war, he wrote that shit down even before he came to power. Putin spent until 2008 trying to get along, then started pleading for Russian security interests to please please please not be ignored. In 2014 he signed the Minsk agreements, even though it would almost certainly have been easier for Russia to roll over Ukraine right then and there. In 2022 immediately started peace negotiations after invading. Clearly didn’t even bring enough troops for a proper war. So no, war was clearly not plan A here.

Genocidal SS death squads trailing the front line and murdering whole villages? Hmm, no. In fact, the amount of civilians killed in Ukraine since Feb 2022 is pretty low for how much fighting is going on. Israel already killed more civilians in 4 weeks. The US invasion of Iraq was a lot worse, by comparison. This doesn’t even come close to the organized mass murder of the Nazis.

There are so many differences between Nazi Germany and present-day Russia, between Putin and Hitler, and between this war and WW2. It’s a great rhetoric tool for shutting down discussion though.

No matter how badly the war goes, no matter what the actual things that Russia says they want, no matter that Ukraine is destroyed and hundreds of thousands soldiers dead: They have to keep on fighting. Can’t negotiate with Hitler! Can’t trust anything they say! Have to keep on fighting until Putin is no more or everyone is dead, because, you know, HiTLeR!! Hitler is coming to kill us all and we need to fight to the death!

No need for analysis, no need for evidence. HITLER! Argument over.

The US is now pushing Ukraine to negotiate and make concessions. I guess the US admin doesn’t actually believe that Putler “will not stop until dead”, or they wouldn’t do that, would they? Maybe they were just saying that to get people like you on board with their escalations.

Wouldn’t have made a difference to the outcome of the war anyway. And if they hadn’t sent those heavy weapons, Ukraine might have not attempted their disastrous counter-offensive, and all those fallen soldiers might still be alive.

Great job, Western powers: Block peace talks and send weapons so that the war lasts probably two years the longer than necessary, hundreds of thousands additional dead, a shit-ton of destroyed infrastructure, large swaths of farmland mined and littered with unexploded ordinance, and worse negotiating position for Ukraine. Some strategic geniuses at work there.

Some of the far-right like Israel for stupid reasons:

• It’s an example of the sort of ethno-nationalist supremacy they want to implement at home.
• Some in the far-right have embraced this idea that various ethnic groups should not mix, but they can have their own countries/regions (“ethnopluralism”).
• They want to get rid of Jews from their home countries, so they like the idea of them leaving and going to Israel.
• They hate Muslims even more than Jews.

Biden said something like: “If there was no Israel, we’d have to invent it.”

The US loves having a highly militarized, violent, totally amoral and 100% US-dependent proxy next to all those oil fields. The last thing the US wants is peace in the middle east. This is just divide-and-conquer 101.

“They can’t do that! You can’t negotiate with Hitler, remember? That’s appeasement!”

“Who are they to tell Ukraine anything! It’s a sovereign country! By telling them to negotiate they’re basically helping Putin! Fuck those pro-Russian traitors!”

“Ukraine’s negotiation position is weak now, they will be in a much better position after the upcoming spring offensive!”