I’m waiting for the IOF to make a very public display of the apache gunners who shot indiscriminately at the festival, or the tank commanders firing indiscriminately at homes in the kibbutzim. Your argument falls flat when the Israeli army not only is killing thousands of civilians in Gaza (and are proud of it btw), but also their own citizens on Oct 7.
Holding someone in “military administration”, without trial, without charge, without access to a lawyer or family, for political gain sounds a lot like a hostage to me, ESPECIALLY when the detainee in question is a child, of which there are hundreds.
Hamas does not want to wipe out every single Jew. From their 2017 charter:
Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity
And yes, I agree Israel won’t want to negotiate, because they have no interest in allowing Palestinians the right to self determination, which is what Hamas would be negotiating for.
A ceasefire comes about as an agreement between the parties. That’s why it is hard to get to (Hamas won’t stop defending Gaza, and the IOF doesn’t want to stop shelling/infiltrating). In order for the two parties to lay down arms even for a moment is with negotiations and agreements. We saw during the ceasefire, multiple negotiations, resulting in specific numbers of hostages from both sides released. These numbers weren’t decided at the time of release, they were specifics negotiated and agreed upon between parties.
Everyone that I know, that is calling for a ceasefire wants to see a permanent ceasefire. Not one that begins with Israel stating they will return to obliterating Gaza as soon as its over, but one that results in a process toward Palestinian self-determination, ALL hostages released both by Hamas and Israel. Keep in mind, Israel holds thousands of Palestinians hostage, including many without charge or trial and during the ceasefire, Israel detained more Palestinians than they released.
Israel doesn’t have to be gone in order for Palestinians to be free. People are protesting because this isn’t a war, this is resistance fighters standing up against an occupation and apartheid system. A free Palestine does not mean Israel and Zionists wiped off the map. It means Palestinians living with dignity, human rights, and self determination; things they are not given now, and have not been given for 75 years.
Yes, there are those in the fringe that believe Israel needs to be wiped off the map. Any political situation will breed extremists. But in order for peace to be achieved, first and foremost is the dismantling of Israel’s APARTHEID SYSTEM.
this is why we rally. Our governments must understand that we are tasking them with putting pressure on Israel to change its ways. This is how apartheid fell in South Africa.
Free Palestine.
Salam and shalom to all citizens of Palestine.
Edit: forgot to add: those extremists do not represent the movement as a whole
Alright, peace brother.
Had Zionists not stolen it, it would be undisputed.
Undisputed land? Bro are you that daft?
Yeah, that’s where you’re wrong…
My support for Palestinian liberation has nothing to do with Algeria, sorry.
Israel actually have thousands of “prisoners”, many of which are being held indefinitely without charges or trial. Usually when someone is being held against their will, without reason we call them a hostage. Israel has abducted more Palestinians during the “truce” than they have released. Israel is also seemingly responsible for many of the deaths of Israeli civilians on the 7th of October, including shooting people exiting homes in kibbutzim at the orders of the army.If you want to start sharing graphic, gory, NSFL videos, I have countless videos of Palestinian children without limbs, intact skulls, you name it. No one here is defending Hamas killing civilians. But they difference is that unlike you, we are not defending Israel killing thousands of civilians. The IOF is a terrorist army.
Reminder that multiple Palestinian villages have been ethnically cleansed in the West Bank during the assault on Gaza, by settler militias supported by the IOF.
Reminder that Israel rejected early proposals for hostage exchanges opting instead for carnage on the Palestinian civilians.
Reminder that Israel KNEW of the October 7 attack ahead of time and failed to do anything to stop it.
Reminder that Israel is by all accounts a setler-colonial ethnostate imposing apartheid on the Palestinian people.
Reminder that there was a 56 year occupation and a 75 year ethnic cleansing before the 7th of October attacks
Ah, see it is lawful because Israel says so, therefore it doesn’t qualify as terrorism. /s
You’re absolutely right that there will be variance, and that each side has incentive to inflate death counts, etc. Other orgs will likely not produce their own numbers until after this mess is over. Check the Wiki pages or B’Tselem pages on previous assaults on Gaza to see how the numbers can vary, that’ll give you an idea at least.
If it was any other country your argument would be substantive. But we are talking about Israel and Palestine. Anyone who leaves will not be able to return. That’s how it’s always been. And for the Palestinians, their land is their existence. They will not give it up. They know the second they leave, it’s been lost.
All the supporters of Palestine that I know absolutely support the return of any hostages, including myself. However we aren’t so one-sided to only demand that of Hamas. We also believe the 5000+ Palestinians held in Israeli prisons and military posts, many of which are illegally held without charges, unable to seek legal advice or see family, some of which are children, ought to be returned as well.
Don’t be blind to what is happening. It isn’t hard information to find.
Sorry, but I have been an advocate for Palestinian rights for years. I’m not just shilling out propaganda on the day of a massacre. As I type this, the confirmed death tolls have Israelis near 100 while Palestinian deaths are near double that. So if you want to start talking about massacres, just so far today Israel has caused more death, let alone the days, weeks, months, years and decades prior to today.
Point made. Sadly it’s true. Especially today as we spend trillions on technology designed to kill.
Haaretz: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-18/ty-article/.premium/israeli-security-establishment-hamas-likely-didnt-have-prior-knowledge-of-nova-festival/0000018b-e2ee-d168-a3ef-f7fe8ca20000
The Electronic Intifada: https://electronicintifada.net/content/israeli-forces-shot-their-own-civilians-kibbutz-survivor-says/38861
Mondoweiss: https://mondoweiss.net/2023/10/a-growing-number-of-reports-indicate-israeli-forces-responsible-for-israeli-civilian-and-military-deaths-following-october-7-attack/
The Grayzone: https://thegrayzone.com/2023/10/27/israels-military-shelled-burning-tanks-helicopters/