Maybe instead of a candidate that gives you everything you want, a candidate that gives you most of what you want and is viable is a more reasonable expectation.
Moderate Democrat isn’t a bad word, and a more centrist candidate implies broad support. It’s easy to forget that on the fediverse, where the Overton window is way left of normal society.
It’s funny how the us has redefined liberalism to mean something else, because both parties generally could be considered liberal, perhaps one more liberal and one slightly less:
Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on the rights of the individual, liberty, consent of the governed, political equality, right to private property and equality before the law. Liberals espouse various views depending on their understanding of these principles but generally support private property, market economies, individual rights (including civil rights and human rights), liberal democracy, secularism, rule of law, economic and political freedom, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, and freedom of religion, constitutional government and privacy rights. Liberalism is frequently cited as the dominant ideology of modern history.
The lies people who vote third party tell themselves to justify their actions are astounding. You know the game, you know the rules and you know the consequences but still you do the wrong thing and pat yourself on the back and think yourself some sort of hero.
The place to do this is in the primaries, unironically. After that you are voting for the better of two candidates and any vote outside of that is still a decision between two candidates.
Yeah but what about the democrats using superdelegates and general fuckery to get Bernie out in 2016? I know they changed the superdelegate system at some point but still. Only time I’ve seen an outsider actually decimate and forcibly enter the party was Trump. And even then he still capitulated to general Republican beliefs.
Plus the current democrat primary is just a hippy, biden, someone nobody has heard of and Cenk who 99% will get disqualified since the dude wasn’t born in the US. I mean there’s a chance Manchin might run but he’s probably gonna go independent/No Labels.
This year we have an incumbent, there were a huge number of candidates in the Democratic primary race for president before 2020, many dropped out before voting because they were not viable, you are totally misrepresenting the primary process.
The Democrats did not need superdelegates in the end to reject Bernie in 2016. There’s also some significant evidence that Bernie was supported by Russian disinformation in an effort to get President Trump elected. That same disinformation effort that was seeking to discredit US elections in both parties and led to January 6th.
So what? The Russians support anything to sow discord. Just like Democrats supporting extremist Republican candidates to cause mayhem. It’s literally just a facet of American politics and vice versa (American government supporting radical candidates elsewhere). Bernie’s campaign was one of the most progressive the democrats had seen in forever. Even far more progressive than anyone in the squad.
Course these days the guy’s a joke but I don’t feel like going into his ‘fall from grace’.
The so what is that your perception of him being wronged specifically comes from Russian disinformation in an effort to suppress the vote in the general election. This was overall a successful campaign.
He simply lost. It was the most successful progressive campaign since John Edwards.
Yeah, I mean, even with what the dems/media did against him he did still lose. And he did do stupid stuff on the campaign, irelevant of whoever funded him. He had avenues to continue on and cause damage, such as accepting the green party nomination with Jill Stein (yes I know about the ‘possible’ russian connection there) but alas he just backed down.
I guess I’ll look into the russian disinfo with Bernie then. Far as I was previously aware there was just some screwy things with the Bernie bros but that was it. Don’t know much about his 2020 campaign but I didn’t really take that seriously anyways.
To be clear, I haven’t seen any signs of collusion or finance impropriety at all. It’s more that it is a complex media space and our elections are a huge target for influence.
If voting Democrat isn’t going to change anything, voting third party is definitely not going to change anything. Might as well make the higher percentage play, which is voting Democrat.
You want to give up, throw your vote away voting for some third party crank and somehow I’m the defeatist? I want some of whatever you’re smoking because it sounds really strong.
I can’t continue with this line of reasoning. You are the one whos equating voting third party with not voting and apathy. Nothing will change in the States. Never ever.
Third party, unironically.
inb4 helping the other side/first-past/throwing votes/electoral college. Gotta show em this is what happens when they are ignored.
I totally agree. It will hurt, but this lesser-evil bullshit needs to end.
Blame everyone who votes for ‘moderate’ democrats. Not the people who refuse to ‘fall in line.’
Yep. People wanna act like votes are deserved. Votes are earned and if the party hasnt shown they earn them they dont get them. Full stop.
Maybe instead of a candidate that gives you everything you want, a candidate that gives you most of what you want and is viable is a more reasonable expectation.
Except there isn’t anyone like that. Oh wait, there is. 3rd party. But then we’ll just be going in a circle again.
You forgot the viable part.
Moderate Democrat isn’t a bad word, and a more centrist candidate implies broad support. It’s easy to forget that on the fediverse, where the Overton window is way left of normal society.
No, it wholeheartedly is.
There is no liberal party in the US. Only conservative, and slightly less-conservative.
It’s funny how the us has redefined liberalism to mean something else, because both parties generally could be considered liberal, perhaps one more liberal and one slightly less:
I suspect you mean social or new deal liberalism, which defines Democrats but not Republicans.
You are correct.
I don’t like the word liberal nor using it. Unfortunately, it has come to mean a point between conservatives and their dissenters.
Democrats, liberal, leftist, none of these really apply to what I am really talking about.
I think Progressive is the best, most accurate term. Other nations have parties that are more “Progressive” than “Liberal.”
It’s another reason why I’m a huge fan of talking specifics, not generalities.
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The lies people who vote third party tell themselves to justify their actions are astounding. You know the game, you know the rules and you know the consequences but still you do the wrong thing and pat yourself on the back and think yourself some sort of hero.
Ditto!
Lmao if your plan works your life is going to get so much worse and I just don’t understand how you see that as a win
Okay.
The place to do this is in the primaries, unironically. After that you are voting for the better of two candidates and any vote outside of that is still a decision between two candidates.
Yeah but what about the democrats using superdelegates and general fuckery to get Bernie out in 2016? I know they changed the superdelegate system at some point but still. Only time I’ve seen an outsider actually decimate and forcibly enter the party was Trump. And even then he still capitulated to general Republican beliefs.
Plus the current democrat primary is just a hippy, biden, someone nobody has heard of and Cenk who 99% will get disqualified since the dude wasn’t born in the US. I mean there’s a chance Manchin might run but he’s probably gonna go independent/No Labels.
This year we have an incumbent, there were a huge number of candidates in the Democratic primary race for president before 2020, many dropped out before voting because they were not viable, you are totally misrepresenting the primary process.
The Democrats did not need superdelegates in the end to reject Bernie in 2016. There’s also some significant evidence that Bernie was supported by Russian disinformation in an effort to get President Trump elected. That same disinformation effort that was seeking to discredit US elections in both parties and led to January 6th.
So what? The Russians support anything to sow discord. Just like Democrats supporting extremist Republican candidates to cause mayhem. It’s literally just a facet of American politics and vice versa (American government supporting radical candidates elsewhere). Bernie’s campaign was one of the most progressive the democrats had seen in forever. Even far more progressive than anyone in the squad.
Course these days the guy’s a joke but I don’t feel like going into his ‘fall from grace’.
The so what is that your perception of him being wronged specifically comes from Russian disinformation in an effort to suppress the vote in the general election. This was overall a successful campaign.
He simply lost. It was the most successful progressive campaign since John Edwards.
Yeah, I mean, even with what the dems/media did against him he did still lose. And he did do stupid stuff on the campaign, irelevant of whoever funded him. He had avenues to continue on and cause damage, such as accepting the green party nomination with Jill Stein (yes I know about the ‘possible’ russian connection there) but alas he just backed down.
I guess I’ll look into the russian disinfo with Bernie then. Far as I was previously aware there was just some screwy things with the Bernie bros but that was it. Don’t know much about his 2020 campaign but I didn’t really take that seriously anyways.
To be clear, I haven’t seen any signs of collusion or finance impropriety at all. It’s more that it is a complex media space and our elections are a huge target for influence.
So you know all the reasons why what you choose to do is wrong but do it anyway?
You already admitted that’s not what you are actually accomplishing but I guess lying to yourself makes you feel better.
Yeah sure. Vote democrat. Nothings ever gonna change. Not now. Not ever.
If voting Democrat isn’t going to change anything, voting third party is definitely not going to change anything. Might as well make the higher percentage play, which is voting Democrat.
Sure. Keep up the defeatism. It’s what those in power want. This is probably the only American thing I will never understand.
You want to give up, throw your vote away voting for some third party crank and somehow I’m the defeatist? I want some of whatever you’re smoking because it sounds really strong.
I can’t continue with this line of reasoning. You are the one whos equating voting third party with not voting and apathy. Nothing will change in the States. Never ever.
Somehow I think I’ll find the strength to carry on without your brilliant wisdom to guide the way.
The only ones peddling defeatism here are the ones advocating for the greater evil because the aren’t getting everything they want.