Israel’s population is currently about 9.7 million, which doesn’t count the ~5 million Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza. So about 15x the population as in 1931.
In Israel, there’s currently around 7 million Jews and 2 million Arabs. About 80% of Arab- Israelis are Sunni Muslim, 9% are Christian and 9% are Druze.
So, uh, it looks like the Muslim population of the land that is current Israel has more than doubled since 1947?
I mean, to make that argument about the holocaust you’d need to lie about the numbers.
There were 17 million Jews worldwide in 1939, but only 11 million in 1945. In Europe, the population went from 9 million Jews just before the holocaust to only 3 million Jews continent-wide after it - even counting those in allied and neutral countries.
Poland, before the holocaust, had over three million Jews; 90% of them were murdered by the Nazis. Those people didn’t just evaporate.
Meanwhile - did I lie about the numbers? Keep in mind, 2 million is the current number of Israeli citizens of Palestinian heritage.
They’re Holocaust deniers. No one said they were smart.
The point is, even if they were right with the numbers, it wouldn’t matter because the logic of the argument is wrong. Both ethically, and factually.
High birthrates are the natural human reaction to trauma such as war and generational thinning. Hint: remember, the population of Palestine under 18 was 52%
Just because you did a shitty job, or weren’t strong willed enough to follow through to completion, or did it slowly, doesn’t mean you didn’t try.
P.s. that word thinning? I didn’t pock that randomly. That’s what Israels political leaders call what they do.
‘Thinning the population’, and ‘mowing the grass’.
There’s almost two million Palestinian citizens of Israel. In 1952, Israel gave citizenship to the ~160k Palestinians living in Israeli territory who hadn’t fled during the 1948 war; they lived under martial law until 1966.
No one is displacing Palestinians in Israel; Israeli settlers are displacing Palestinians in Palestine.
The displacement of Palestinians in and after the Nakba. The 160k Palestinians living in Israel in 1949 weren’t the ones who hadn’t fled, they were the ones who were allowed to stay. Most others ere either physically expelled from their homes or left fleeing IDF massacres. Look up Benny Morris’s 4-stage analysis.
Palestinian population increased by some 500% since the founding of Israel in 1948. The goal of the current Israeli operation is the destruction of the actually genocidal Hamas, not of Palestinians.
That would be a map of the whole of Israel. Palestinian Arabs who want to live in peace in Israel are doing exactly that, and have positions across all ranks of Israeli society, including an Arab judge that sent a corrupt Israeli politician to jail.
Might you be referring to that debunked collection of four maps, which use the same two colours to show different things in the hope that people will just jump to incorrect conclusions without doing too much research?
Israel is the most amazingly incompetent genociders on the planet. The genocided Palestinian population is shrinking at a large negative percentage every year, going from a few hundred K to several million. Even in the current campaign in Gaza they’ve only achieved a mortality rate of about four bombs per person. If you’re doing a genocide, what you really need to do is drop a single bomb on a hospital and kill 500 people in one go (or was that a Hamas misfire that landed in a car park and lightly singed a couple of dozen cars?)
Like the previous comment said, not a very effective genocide. Land wise, Palestinians were offered their own state on 48, they rejected so that Jewish people will not have their own state.
Their rejection is understandable. The west/UN offered them land? Shouldn’t the people who had lived there for generations be able to decide for themselves?
Jews have lived in this land for many generations as well and equally have the right for that land as well. That’s not to say that they should drive whoever lived there out.
They were offered full citizenship and their own full sovereign country which they didn’t have before but they refused and instead declared war.
Jews have lived in this land for many generations as well and equally have the right for that land as well.
I don’t know, man. Many Arab Jews lived in Palestine alongside everyone else just fine… but those you are talking about weren’t in Palestine since what year? since like 600 BC? 🤔 No offense, buddy, but if you don’t live in a place for that long, it’s not really yours anymore… and if you have to ethnically cleanse the population (the Nakba) then that raises more eyebrows, sounds like the land isn’t yours… sounds like colonialism to me.
They were offered full citizenship and their own full sovereign country which they didn’t have before but they refused and instead declared war.
LOOK AT ME! I’M ISRAEL! I TAKE TWO-THIRDS OF THE CAKE, YES? AND YOU GET 1 THIRD OF THE CAKE, YES? THAT IS FAIR. WHAT DO YOU MEAN IT’S NOT FAIR??? WE WILL BOMB YOU TO THE GROUND!!!
Maybe we should all take over Africa, since we ALL have the right to live there and exploit its riches, being homo sapiens and all.
Yes, a Jewish minority lived in Palestine with no problems as far as I know. But again, they where offered citizenship and a sovereign country. This is not something that should be offered by the rest of the world, or by a bunch of immigrants with a motive to create their own country specifically for themselves.
If you are talking about the water situation in Gaza prior to October 7th, I want to remind you that Gaza also borders with Egypt and any humanitarian crisis that is present in Gaza could be easily aided by Egypt, opening its borders and providing them all the water they need.
They are their “brothers” after all.
In my opinion, Israel has the right to refuse aid to a place that constantly fires rockets at them. But Egypt, What is their excuse? Why are you not pointing your criticism towards them as well?
The sad thing is that Israel has developed advanced technology to shoot rockets in the air. This paradoxically has been a mistake as it normalizes firing rockets as long as the casualty numbers are very low.
Please, if you can, tell me of any other example of a country that will allow constant barraging rockets towards its land and still provide aid to their enemy?
In my opinion, Israel has the right to refuse aid to a place that constantly fires rockets at them.
Ah yes, Israel has the right to collective punishment 😍 not like, “sanctions” or something of a political caliber, nope, just straight out no food or water or meds or fuel so that children can die in their hospital beds from 100% preventable diseases.
still provide aid to their enemy?
Funny how it’s not Hamas that’s starving, just the other 2.3 million Gazans, of which about 1 million are children.
Can you explain to me how your views fit with the fact that Israel steals natural water resources from Gazans?
In Gaza, the only source of surface water has been the Wadi Gaza. There are claims that Israel diverts part of its water for agricultural purposes within Israel prior to its arrival to Gaza.[40][41]
Same for the West Bank:
According to a World Bank report, Israel extracted 80% more water from the West Bank than agreed in the Oslo Accord, while Palestinian abstractions were within the agreed range.
Israel has no right to deny food or water to a place that they control the borders too. Thankfully, this isn’t something that requires your opinion. Blockading another country is an act of war. Occupying forces are required to provide required food and water to populations they occupy. Something Israel has been doing for 17 years.
The Egypt thing is a BS racist side argument and you know it. It is used to justify illegal actions on the part of Israel, with the full knowledge that the Rafa crossing is controlled by both Egypt and Israel, and really it’s controlled by the US. The second the Egyptian government at the time opened the Rafa border crossing, there would immediately be another Egyptian government taking its place.
Israel is an Apartheid state, exactly like Apartheid South Africa. It is as evil as Apartheid South Africa was. Desmond Tutu, and other black people that suffered under Apartheid South Africa rule that have visited Gaza have stated that the Palestinians have it worse in the Gaza strip then they had it under apartheid rule in South Africa.
Finally, to your question trying to justify ethnic cleansing: EVERY OCCUPYING POWER SINCE WW2. Israel is treated differently than every other county in that it doesn’t have to abide by the same standards as anyone else. Stop trying to pretend that criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic. It isn’t. I’m not criticizing Egypt right now because they didn’t kill 8,000 children in two months. Come back with your “Why aren’t you critizing them” bullshit when they go free fire insane like Israel has.
Your wonderful country little democracy killed 8,000 children in 2 months. Stop trying to pretend that it is a reasonable country.
Certainly Israel could have been more optimal in its handling of the Palestinian psuedo-states since 1967. And there are plenty of instances of actual evil activity by Israel and her citizens (see Settler violence in the West Bank as a perfect example of that). However the idea that Israel is committing a genocide is just hyperbole and it cheapens and discredits those who make that claim.
They’re literally targeting all infrastructure that makes life possible in the strip. Not for Hamas, but for Palestinians.
They’re PUBLICLY talking about moving all Palestinians from the Gaza strip in the Sinai desert, or forcing other countries to take them in. That is LITERALLY the definition of ethnic cleansing. In those situations, especially the desert one, children die first. That’s the fucking point.
You’re being a smug asshole defending ethnic cleansing while literally pulling nothing but shit out of your ass.
They’ve been since at least 1948.
The world’s least effective 70 year genocide! Those bastards. /s
Uh… Look at the Palestinian population living in Israeli controlled territory then vs now.
The 1931 census, carried out by the British, found a total population of a bit over a million people. Looking at other estimates doesn’t have it increasing that much between 1931 and 1947.
Israel’s population is currently about 9.7 million, which doesn’t count the ~5 million Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza. So about 15x the population as in 1931.
In Israel, there’s currently around 7 million Jews and 2 million Arabs. About 80% of Arab- Israelis are Sunni Muslim, 9% are Christian and 9% are Druze.
So, uh, it looks like the Muslim population of the land that is current Israel has more than doubled since 1947?
There were other groups that made the argument that that wasn’t genocide because the population of the target group increased.
You really want to make the same exact arguments holocaust deniers make?
I mean, to make that argument about the holocaust you’d need to lie about the numbers.
There were 17 million Jews worldwide in 1939, but only 11 million in 1945. In Europe, the population went from 9 million Jews just before the holocaust to only 3 million Jews continent-wide after it - even counting those in allied and neutral countries.
Poland, before the holocaust, had over three million Jews; 90% of them were murdered by the Nazis. Those people didn’t just evaporate.
Meanwhile - did I lie about the numbers? Keep in mind, 2 million is the current number of Israeli citizens of Palestinian heritage.
They’re Holocaust deniers. No one said they were smart.
The point is, even if they were right with the numbers, it wouldn’t matter because the logic of the argument is wrong. Both ethically, and factually.
High birthrates are the natural human reaction to trauma such as war and generational thinning. Hint: remember, the population of Palestine under 18 was 52%
Just because you did a shitty job, or weren’t strong willed enough to follow through to completion, or did it slowly, doesn’t mean you didn’t try.
P.s. that word thinning? I didn’t pock that randomly. That’s what Israels political leaders call what they do.
‘Thinning the population’, and ‘mowing the grass’.
I said look at the map, not the number, for a reason. These people (generally) aren’t getting murdered. They’re getting displaced.
What exactly is the map going to tell you?
There’s almost two million Palestinian citizens of Israel. In 1952, Israel gave citizenship to the ~160k Palestinians living in Israeli territory who hadn’t fled during the 1948 war; they lived under martial law until 1966.
No one is displacing Palestinians in Israel; Israeli settlers are displacing Palestinians in Palestine.
The displacement of Palestinians in and after the Nakba. The 160k Palestinians living in Israel in 1949 weren’t the ones who hadn’t fled, they were the ones who were allowed to stay. Most others ere either physically expelled from their homes or left fleeing IDF massacres. Look up Benny Morris’s 4-stage analysis.
You definitely didn’t say that.
Yeah you’re actually right; I said it in my next reply down the chain, my bad.
Palestinian population increased by some 500% since the founding of Israel in 1948. The goal of the current Israeli operation is the destruction of the actually genocidal Hamas, not of Palestinians.
Look at the map of where Palestinians are living in 1948 (or hell, even 1966) vs now. Then you’ll see why it’s called a genocide.
That would be a map of the whole of Israel. Palestinian Arabs who want to live in peace in Israel are doing exactly that, and have positions across all ranks of Israeli society, including an Arab judge that sent a corrupt Israeli politician to jail.
Might you be referring to that debunked collection of four maps, which use the same two colours to show different things in the hope that people will just jump to incorrect conclusions without doing too much research?
Israel is the most amazingly incompetent genociders on the planet. The genocided Palestinian population is shrinking at a large negative percentage every year, going from a few hundred K to several million. Even in the current campaign in Gaza they’ve only achieved a mortality rate of about four bombs per person. If you’re doing a genocide, what you really need to do is drop a single bomb on a hospital and kill 500 people in one go (or was that a Hamas misfire that landed in a car park and lightly singed a couple of dozen cars?)
Have you seen the West Bank?
Like the previous comment said, not a very effective genocide. Land wise, Palestinians were offered their own state on 48, they rejected so that Jewish people will not have their own state.
Their rejection is understandable. The west/UN offered them land? Shouldn’t the people who had lived there for generations be able to decide for themselves?
Jews have lived in this land for many generations as well and equally have the right for that land as well. That’s not to say that they should drive whoever lived there out. They were offered full citizenship and their own full sovereign country which they didn’t have before but they refused and instead declared war.
Somebody doesn’t even pretend to have ever read a book in their life or listened to somebody who actually lives there.
I don’t know, man. Many Arab Jews lived in Palestine alongside everyone else just fine… but those you are talking about weren’t in Palestine since what year? since like 600 BC? 🤔 No offense, buddy, but if you don’t live in a place for that long, it’s not really yours anymore… and if you have to ethnically cleanse the population (the Nakba) then that raises more eyebrows, sounds like the land isn’t yours… sounds like colonialism to me.
LOOK AT ME! I’M ISRAEL! I TAKE TWO-THIRDS OF THE CAKE, YES? AND YOU GET 1 THIRD OF THE CAKE, YES? THAT IS FAIR. WHAT DO YOU MEAN IT’S NOT FAIR??? WE WILL BOMB YOU TO THE GROUND!!!
Maybe we should all take over Africa, since we ALL have the right to live there and exploit its riches, being homo sapiens and all.
Yes, a Jewish minority lived in Palestine with no problems as far as I know. But again, they where offered citizenship and a sovereign country. This is not something that should be offered by the rest of the world, or by a bunch of immigrants with a motive to create their own country specifically for themselves.
Yeah, how were the water resources in those lands? Were they capable of supporting the population being asked to depend on them.
I’ll save you the trip to the library. No, they weren’t.
Not agreeing to commit slow suicide doesn’t give the other side the right to murder you.
If you are talking about the water situation in Gaza prior to October 7th, I want to remind you that Gaza also borders with Egypt and any humanitarian crisis that is present in Gaza could be easily aided by Egypt, opening its borders and providing them all the water they need. They are their “brothers” after all.
In my opinion, Israel has the right to refuse aid to a place that constantly fires rockets at them. But Egypt, What is their excuse? Why are you not pointing your criticism towards them as well?
The sad thing is that Israel has developed advanced technology to shoot rockets in the air. This paradoxically has been a mistake as it normalizes firing rockets as long as the casualty numbers are very low.
Please, if you can, tell me of any other example of a country that will allow constant barraging rockets towards its land and still provide aid to their enemy?
Ah yes, Israel has the right to collective punishment 😍 not like, “sanctions” or something of a political caliber, nope, just straight out no food or water or meds or fuel so that children can die in their hospital beds from 100% preventable diseases.
Funny how it’s not Hamas that’s starving, just the other 2.3 million Gazans, of which about 1 million are children.
Can you explain to me how your views fit with the fact that Israel steals natural water resources from Gazans?
Same for the West Bank:
Read all about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_supply_and_sanitation_in_the_State_of_Palestine
Israel has no right to deny food or water to a place that they control the borders too. Thankfully, this isn’t something that requires your opinion. Blockading another country is an act of war. Occupying forces are required to provide required food and water to populations they occupy. Something Israel has been doing for 17 years.
The Egypt thing is a BS racist side argument and you know it. It is used to justify illegal actions on the part of Israel, with the full knowledge that the Rafa crossing is controlled by both Egypt and Israel, and really it’s controlled by the US. The second the Egyptian government at the time opened the Rafa border crossing, there would immediately be another Egyptian government taking its place.
Israel is an Apartheid state, exactly like Apartheid South Africa. It is as evil as Apartheid South Africa was. Desmond Tutu, and other black people that suffered under Apartheid South Africa rule that have visited Gaza have stated that the Palestinians have it worse in the Gaza strip then they had it under apartheid rule in South Africa.
Finally, to your question trying to justify ethnic cleansing: EVERY OCCUPYING POWER SINCE WW2. Israel is treated differently than every other county in that it doesn’t have to abide by the same standards as anyone else. Stop trying to pretend that criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic. It isn’t. I’m not criticizing Egypt right now because they didn’t kill 8,000 children in two months. Come back with your “Why aren’t you critizing them” bullshit when they go free fire insane like Israel has.
Your wonderful country little democracy killed 8,000 children in 2 months. Stop trying to pretend that it is a reasonable country.
ANYTHING LESS THAN HOLOCAUST LEVEL MURDER ISN’T GENOCIDE!
-Israel bots
deleted by creator
Then Israel is failing miserably because they’re intentionally killing a whole lot of innocent Palestinians.
Yeah, just killed tens upon tens of thousands of innocent Palestinians since 1948. No big deal.
Certainly Israel could have been more optimal in its handling of the Palestinian psuedo-states since 1967. And there are plenty of instances of actual evil activity by Israel and her citizens (see Settler violence in the West Bank as a perfect example of that). However the idea that Israel is committing a genocide is just hyperbole and it cheapens and discredits those who make that claim.
They’re literally targeting all infrastructure that makes life possible in the strip. Not for Hamas, but for Palestinians.
They’re PUBLICLY talking about moving all Palestinians from the Gaza strip in the Sinai desert, or forcing other countries to take them in. That is LITERALLY the definition of ethnic cleansing. In those situations, especially the desert one, children die first. That’s the fucking point.
You’re being a smug asshole defending ethnic cleansing while literally pulling nothing but shit out of your ass.
https://kbin.social/m/worldnews@lemmy.ml/t/588452/Israeli-Government-Mulls-Forcible-Permanent-Transfer-of-2-2-Million-Gaza
https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-773713