WSWS isn’t a great source because it’s based on a cause.
However, here’s the report.
It’s uh… Not good.
At what point does the Foreign Assistance Act’s ban on sending aid to countries in violation of human rights standards come into play? It seems like we’re getting a report on a new war crime every few days, which is a breathtaking rate for a professional Army.
At what point does the Foreign Assistance Act’s ban on sending aid to countries in violation of human rights standards come into play?
when it’s politically convenient and not a moment before
Too true.
Sad but true
I just saw a report that the US is going to agree to a UN resolution to let more aid into Gaza. I wonder if this is why.
Genocide Joe removed any restriction of human rights violations on the aid for israel so until you vote him out
Oh yes because Trump would use our forces to do it instead.
Look, don’t counter with 3rd party. That’s literally throwing your vote away.
Biden is the only way to beat Trump. There are backwards racists in the Democrats too. You’re not going to get support for anything than an old white guy until at least 2028…
Who are you to tell people they are throwing THEIR votes away?
A person with an understanding of math
They are completely free to say that
Just say “I don’t care about Genocide I only care about my student loans. Fuck Arab babies they can all die if I get some money. I am as morally reprehensible as every single billionaire I condemn”.
Take your mask off already and stop pretending.
Friend I don’t want to be raped to death in a 2025 US concentration camp so I’m voting for Joe. I’m sorry this is what it’s come down to for many of us.
Yeah they said this shit in 2016 and you’re all still alive. You can drop the fear mongering act now and just say you want all Arabs to die.
Thank you for explaining myself to me. I have never been more ecstatic to be a woman than after hearing this enlightened kind sentiment.
You just told a woman genuinely afraid of getting raped to get over it and that she actually hates xyz people.
You need to pause for a moment and ask yourself where you’ve gone wrong.
Dude, chill.
What you should have said was nothing.
If anyone is still wondering why Hamas and other resistance factions are fighting, this is what happens when the IDF wins.
For fucks sake, Hamas is not a “resistance faction” and pretty much nothing was happening until they decided to poke the bear. They’re a bunch of worthless shitstains who don’t give two shits about the welfare of Palestinians.
Fuck Hamas. They are not “resisting”, they killed innocent civilians, women and children, and don’t give a flying fuck about the Palestinian civilians either (cf Moussa Abu Marzouk’s declaration that they are not responsible for defending the civilians in Gaza). They are a creation of the Israeli apartheid regime’s own making when they were hoping to destroy the credibility of the PA, to perpetuate their colonialist narrative. Hamas and the Israeli apartheid are two sides of the same brutal, inhuman coin. Fuck Hamas as much as the Likud and the ultranationalist Israeli right to the seventh pit of hell.
Bastards killing civilians one direction. Bastards killing civilians in the other direction.
If the bastards could fucking kill the other bastards and not involve civilians, that’d be pretty swell. If the IDF and Hamas actually fight each other and no civilians are hurt, everyone wins.
deleted by creator
Was Native American raids on “Settlements” terrorism? Was Nat Turner’s rebellion terrorism?
Hamas is evil and the acts they have done are evil. But they weren’t created in a vacuum. Peace and a one or two state solution needs to be agreed apone by all with a right to self determination for the cycle of evil to stop.
Do you like this group of people? If yes, freedom fighters; if not, terrorists
Do you like this state? If yes, government; if not, regime.
I don’t like Hamas. They are nothing more than bigoted murderers. But they are created from a system of hate. This isn’t an argument of viewpoint. It’s just facts
What’s bigoted about them? They want to kill their oppressors they don’t care about race or religion.
“They don’t care about religion” must be the single most misinformed take I’ve heard on this subject. Hamas is an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood. They’re Islamists. What’s next, “critical support for ISIS”?
There’s a church in Gaza full of CHRISTIANS that was shot by who again two days ago? Was it Hamas? Oh no it was the IDF!
Because Hamas fights against oppressive Nazis not people of a different religion.
Native American militias didn’t brutalise Native Americans, much unlike Hamas does to Palestinians.
This is simply not true. Plenty of natives fought against other natives, whether independently, or with US troops, or for bounties.
Those were generally clashes between different tribes. Hamas is doing internal political oppression, brutalising political opponents etc.
Uhhhhhh one there was definitely infighting amongst the various tribes. Even during colonial expansion. Two Hamas is doing exactly what the IDF and Israelis government pays them to do.
Uhhhhhh one there was definitely infighting amongst the various tribes.
Irrelevant because Gaza is not different tribes, thus I ignored it. But I bet you felt smart typing that.
Two Hamas is doing exactly what the IDF and Israelis government pays them to do.
Quite an edgelord take but yes they’re oppressing Palestinians, and killed a lot of Israeli leftists, hippie Kibbutz type people actually helping people in Gaza, in their attacks, Kahanites certainly don’t mind that. I don’t think Israel was planning on Hamas having a shot at the Israeli-Saudi rapprochement, though.
deleted by creator
Is it possible for you to argue without analogies? They’re never a 1:1 representation of the situation at hand. All they do is serve to distract from the conversation by making people debate the accuracy of the analogy.
I bet you’d call the Viet Cong terrorists during the Vietnam war too lol.
This is similar to that in some regards too; similar guerilla tactics, and they’re also fighting to drive away an occupying force and reunify their country.
Their attack on Oct 7 was brutal, but it’s nothing compared to the shit Israel has been repeatedly doing for the last half century.
deleted by creator
is this the new line coming out from Israel? It’s not very good is it?
You pretty much have to be braindead to believe any of the propaganda coming out of Israel. Much if it doesn’t make any sense.
deleted by creator
No, this is what happens when you give them an excuse.
There is never an excuse for blatant warcrimes.
First of all, Hamas is a terrorist organization and I fully support Israel in removing it. It definitely is not a resistance group.
However, Israel has to change the way they approach the problem. Especially limiting shenanigans like this one and using stupid bombs.
Executions ≠ shenanigans. Are you fucking kidding?
Edit: typo
Dang, so the IDF gets your blessing even though they’re killing 10x as many civilians as a terrorist organization?
Even though they’re killing more civilians than Russia?
Were you replying to a different post or something?
However, Israel has to change the way they approach the problem. Especially limiting shenanigans like this one and using stupid bombs.
Wow it’s like you completely and utterly ignored his second paragraph entirely.
Those darn Israelis and their ethnic cleansing shenanigans.
Zionism is a mental illness at this point.
The constant attacks against Israel and it’s increasing isolation only probs Zionists right. Jews can only trust themselves for their own defense and need a state for that (that’s what Zionism is). People like you feed Zionism everyday.
You’re conflating Jews with an extremist ideology that can only seem to exist through apartheid.
Based on your comment, can I ask what would be your solution the whole Palestine-Israel conflict?
Trials in the Hague followed by imprisonment of all those guilty of war crimes. At this point that Includes most IDF members, their leaders, and the government.
Actually bring consequences to bear and let other Israelis know that this isn’t acceptable. Israel also needs to be cut off from the teat of the American military industrial complex.
Same standards for Hamas, but that’s a much smaller number.
Any further sabre rattling is met with quick and strong sanctions.
Basically the UN needs to do it’s job, but that needs America not to veto.
Same standards for Hamas, but that’s a much smaller number.
Any further sabre rattling is met with quick and strong sanctions.
Explain to me how that works with Hamas, because I don’t think they give a fuck about either of those things. More troops on the ground?
A bi national state modelled on the EU. Palestinian state delineated by the 1967 borders coexisting with the Jewish state. Single market and freedom of movement for all citizens whether Israeli or Palestinian. That way settlers don’t have to be removed and Palestinians can work in the cities as they did before Oslo.
That’s actually reasonable. Pretty much I would like to see the same option
I’m not the person you’re talking to but as far as i can see the only way to go is one state solution.
Help me out here, because I don’t see that how that’s supposed to work with the whole “killing a bunch of each other” thing going on.
Was Native American raids on “Settlements” terrorism? Was Nat Turner’s rebellion terrorism?
Hamas is evil and the acts they have done are evil. But they weren’t created in a vacuum. Peace and a one or two state solution needs to be agreed apone by all with a right to self determination for the cycle of evil to stop.
It’s time to put in a UN peacekeeping force and a transitional government for a single state solution. Israel has beyond lost it’s moral high ground and should be treated like any other colonial remnant in the post colonial world.
Ones terrorist group is another’s resistance heroes. Which is which very much depends on the side you’re sitting at.
Hamas is indeed a terror group and should be removed but it’s hard not to see your bias. In sheer numbers, the IDF has killed multiples of what Hamas killed, in cruelty they’re really the same, and Hamas has the “excuse” of 70 years or so of oppression, murder, theft, etc by the Israeli side, the IDF doesn’t have that excuse.
The IDF is a terrorist organisation too and the only difference is that the IDF is state sanctioned and managed, whereas Hamas is not.
You, however, call what is starting to look like a genocide “shenanigans” that should be better managed whereas you outright call Hamas a terrorist group. Bias much?
Hey don’t dare to call Hamas as cruel as the IDF. They don’t torture their hostages nor shoot children. Nor do they try to kill people from other religions such as Christians living in Gaza nor do they try to steal other people’s land.
They resist a genocidal Nazi regime and sometimes don’t do it the neatest way but from their position of fighting against their oppressors they hold pretty high moral standards.
Hamas is infinitely humane than the IDF.
You can’t kill a terrorist group. The US spent the last 20 years proving that. You can only defend yourself and reform people/institutions to invalidate the ideology.
All israel would need to do for Hamas to die out is not commit genocide or ethnically cleanse Palestinians and occupy their land.
But people here forget that that’s literally what israel is about.
When Hamas attacked I commented Israel would lash out with it’s usual fervor, making sure that any Palestinians that didn’t support Hamas wouldn’t have a choice. And that the US world would back Israel, providing more ammunition to the Muslim extremists in the middle east to want to continue to fight the US. And Israel working at that time to a potential deal actually worked out with Saudi Arabia would get smashed. Hamas played the world like a fucking fiddle and literally everyone danced along with the tune.
Shenanigans are things you can film with Yakkity Sax as background music. Boots Randolph doesn’t provide the soundtrack to genocide.
You can’t use that word!!! The Big Brains™ will tell you that unless Israel is targeting every single Palestinian on earth then it’s not genocide!
/Wrist
Get fucked shitbag
Haha murdering civilians is good!
Israel seems to think so
Bad Israel and their shenanigans genocide
Bad Israel and their shenanigans genocide
They are are a resistance group, but that’s not really imoortant: I agree that Israel is justified in getting rid of them. What isn’t justified is almost everything they’ve done to achieve that aim.
A witness told the Euro-Med monitor, “Thirteen persons were shot dead and several more were critically injured. The Israeli soldiers later threw shells at the women, who were being held in one of the rooms.” Euro-Med Monitor also recorded a rise in field executions following reports of attacks on Israeli military vehicles by Palestinian factions. This suggests that the crimes being reported are part of Israel’s unlawful retaliatory policy against Palestinian civilians, which is in violation of international humanitarian law.
Last month when Hamas terrorists were alleged to be doing the same, according to IDF, American diplomats were pressuring other countries to stop crying fro human rights and just condemn Hamas.
Can we start condemning IDF as a terrorist and genocider organization under control of a rogue government lead by a tyrant now? Just a little bit, please? We will condemn Hamas again, too, if it matters.
We will condemn Hamas again, too, if it matters.
Spoiler: it never mattered.
Israel is worse than Russia, at least going by the numbers.
Israel has killed more civilians in 2 months than Russia has killed in 2 years.
To be fair though, the Russian army is a joke, and say what you want about the IDF, they’re good at their job. Their job is to mostly murder innocent civilians, and they’re quite good at that, much more efficient than the Russian army
Yeah, but that’s what we know of. It’s suspected that there’s a record breaking (for modern Europe) mass grave outside Mariupol. I doubt the numbers will get as high as the IDFs, but we can’t get any independent journalists or investigators past Russia’s front line from my understanding.
Also, like the other guy said, that fight is a bad professional army vs a better smaller professional army.
The IDF vs Hamas is an okay but cruel professional army against a relatively bad terrorist organization.
“Okay but cruel” seems like a weird way to say bad
I think they meant good and bad in terms of skill level, not moral alignment.
Throwing American money on Children isn’t skill though.
Skill would have been preventing 7 Oct with “worlds best intelligence agency”. There is no skill in the IDF.
I think he means their performance in combat, going by the way he spoke of Ukraine/Russia in the comment.
The Russians are far more Humane than the IDF.
Weird way to say “war criminals”
Yeah, I wasn’t sure how to phrase it. Well trained but bad is a better phrasing I suppose. I find it hard to use the word “bad” when both sides are “bad” idk. I get where both sides come from in the fight 🤷♂️
Mariupol
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1293492/ukraine-war-casualties/
9000 killed 17000 injured in Ukraine in total. Sources are usually ~1000 above or below this number.
Israel killed more civilian in one month than Russia did since the start of their invasion.
Israel has already killed twice as many civilians now as Russia has in Ukraine.
Israel is wayyyy worse than Russia. The israelis are actual Nazis but Jewish.
Russia says “special military operation” instead of “war”.
Israel says “war” instead of “Genocide”.
Oh, i was expecting another cero after the flatenning of the city… thanks
The UN added, “While in control of the building and the civilians sheltering there, the IDF allegedly separated the men from the women and children, and then shot and killed at least 11 of the men, mostly aged in their late 20’s and early 30’s, in front of their family members.” The UN continued, “The IDF then allegedly ordered the women and children into a room, and either shot at them or threw a grenade into the room, reportedly seriously injuring some of them, including an infant and a child. OHCHR has confirmed the killings at Al Awda building.”
Funny, how you alter the source to make it seem more clear than it is. So here is the part you altered, as reported by the OHCHR:
‘OHCHR has confirmed the killings at Al Awdabuilding, although the details and circumstances of the killings are still under verification.’
Just so you’re clear, the person you replied to directly quoted the article word for word
The articles miss quoted then, and should therefore should be considered heavily biased.
Cool. But you went full tilt accusation at that guy. Like FULL tilt. Just trying to throw some humble your way.
Maybe he should double check if the source he quotes is trustworthy. BTW: he hasn’t corrected his made-up quote.
There was no made-up quote. The quote was from the article, which left the end off a sentence, saying that the circumstances are under investigation, although the killings have been confirmed. So we have survivors accusing the IDF of slaughtering these people and we have the bodies, but it has not definitively been proven that the people were killed in the way the survivors claim. People can make of that what they will. I’m not trying to twist anything.
Here is the report (PDF):
The correct way to to cite it would be: ‘OHCHR has confirmed the killings at Al Awdabuilding […].’
Its simply wrong to not do it. Especially cutting of the sentence at a ‘,’.
And the last time a crime against humanity was still under investigation – where it was obvious that a rocket hit a hospital, but the exact circumstances where still unclear – it was later confirmed that Hamas hit the hospital.
although the details and circumstances of the killings
Sorry but please read this again. The killings are confirmed, the exact details are under investigation. We have several witnesses attesting to the crimes and a pile of bodies riddled with IDF bullets. The killings are confirmed.
Also when you write articles, you can’t include every detail for brevity. They provided the direct link to the report so you are able to read it yourself.
Killings are confirmed, but no one knows why and how.
No one? “No one” except for the survivors of it.
And the killers, obviously. Both parties directly involved, so their recountings have to be investigated.
So not no one.
When the culture and the legal system that is supposed to punish illegal activity like this, fails to do its job, the message to each individual is clear if not codified.
Behave as you want, because your leadership controls the information coming out to the wider world. Journalists are intimidated and killed.
If you are discovered, you will be quietly reassigned but not actually disciplined. Protests from the UN or other nations are dismissed using various tired phrases or tactics.
If you actually go to trial, the state will bow to pressure from the public and government officials and not sufficiently punish you for even crimes like murder. 18 months for a summary execution that was clearly premeditated and filmed. It doesn’t matter if the prosecution proves mens rea or that you were filmed loading a weapon first before slow walking over to your victim. You will get a downgraded charge to manslaughter and the broad public will push for your immediate release.
The actual report from the United Nations.
It just says allegations, and it calls on the IDF to investigate.
Of course the IDF should investigate itself. I’m sure they are completely unbiased.
Clearly you’re right. But the UN report did not say what the article said it said. Which means it’s biased reporting.
The article prefaces every item with the word “alleged” or “alleges”, just like the report. How is this biased?
Because that word is not in the title
What are you expecting from “World Socialist Website”? Fact-based reporting? I don’t think so.
For a site calling itself “socialist”, it sure is scared of unabashedly calling out an apartheid ethnostate.
It really isn’t, look at the other articles on that site
I would like the articles referenced here in this community to be fact-based, and I would like our discussion to be based on reality. The situation is bad enough as it is without having to make things up
While I see what you mean by that, is the title being “biased” equal to the article being biased? Seems like all doubts are resolved upon reading the first paragraph.
At this point, with the US influence on UN reporting bodies, I believe independent reporters over UN reports concerning the atrocities committed upon the Palestinian people.
And that’s totally fair. And probably correct. But this article says the UN says something that the UN is not saying. Which means it’s a bad article
It doesn’t though. Only the headline does that. That’s not good, but the article itself is not bad because of its headline.
If the majority of people only read the title, poisoning the title is effectively making the article bad. Even if the article itself is sufficiently conditioned.
So I will stand by my conviction that this is a bad article for this community.
So I will stand by my conviction that this is a bad article for this community.
Hmmmm, I find it strange that you are being pedantic and insistent on the title spoiling the whole article. The article does an excellent job being factual, linking to all its claims, and backing them all up.
I read the title again and again and I believe this is just a disagreement on the meaning of “report”, between you vs. the rest of the readers who had no issue with it + the authors themselves.
Now I’m starting to think using the word “report” was actually more accurate… they literally mean that there was a report from the UN.
On Wednesday, the United Nations Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) published a report
This report and a similar allegation by the Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor imply that Israel has moved from murdering civilians through bombing to mass executions.
Reading the article again helped me realize this. Maybe it can help you too?
What? The article says exactly what the report says. ‘Allege’ is legal shorthand for ‘we say this is true’
The title does not say allege. The title says something very different
No, the title says precisely the same thing. To ‘report’ something to be true is the same as to ‘allege’ something to be true.
To report something is to make a finding. You may have an interesting definition of report, but the common usage is about findings. The UN did not make a finding that Israel committed a mass killing. The implication of the title is the UN made a determination which it did not do.
The UN is calling on Israel to investigate an allegation but it did not make a finding.
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/report
- To return or present as the result of an examination or consideration of any matter officially referred.
I feel like this is quite pedantic.
I think we’ve moved out of ‘not understanding’ and into the realm of ‘you don’t want to believe and you also don’t want others to’ territory.
Which would be fine if you were more honest about it. Have a nice day.
We investigated ourselves and found we did nothing wrong
When OHCHR drops a report like this it means they consider the allegations to be credible. It’s the same level as the news calling someone an alleged murderer after the guy killed someone on national TV. The report in this case is based on witness statements and an investigation done by a human rights NGO out of Europe.
Thanks for sharing
Are organizations keeping track of those responsible for war crime trials? I would love to see a list of those responsible, from the lowest ranks to the highest.
I know of this one: https://www.commondreams.org/news/icc-israel
Hamas is shit for putting terror and attacking Israel above taking care of their own civilians. Israel is shit for mass-execution of innocent civilians.
They’re both shit, but we all know this will only end with Israel exterminating an entire population, which is even shittier.
but we all know this will only end with Israel exterminating an entire population,
It’s so goddamn hilarious that because of history and The Holocaust we aren’t allowed to bring up how deliciously ironic it is that a group of people that were rounded up for extermination are summarily rounding up a group of people for extermination.
I can’t wait to see how this plays out in history.
Who’s not allowed to bring it up? I’ll say it all day. I give no fucks that Israel doesn’t like it, fuck them.
Keep in mind the Holocaust was all Jews, and Israel here in no way represents all Jews, as much as they’d like to.
It fits in perfectly with history unfortunately. Members of group A inflict horror on members of group B. Some time passes, and some members of group B choose to inflict horror on group C and/or group A.
It’s all just radical subsets of the population, who would love nothing more than to represent their whole group.
I would just like to point out that the Holocaust was not JUST Jews. Other people were persecuted as well (such as LGBTQ+ peeps)
Isreal is nothing but a continuation of the holocaust. The mass migration of jews from their nation of origin to a colony is genocide from all the European nations and America who supported and funded its creation. It was final solution part 2. Not even an original one, the nazis had the Same idea first for Madagascar
The reason Hamas is in existence is because their peoples’ homes being taken and the Palestinians being killed constantly, for years. What would you do if your nation has lived in their land for ages, and a people came and took your family homeland and killed your family, and took neighborhoods and whole swaths of areas, then penned you up so that you couldn’t exit or enter your country without their permission…don’t you think you’d rise up with some other warriors to do something, anything? That’s what Hamas is. It is not a terrorist organization to go out and cause terror and trouble. It is the fighting representative of a beaten people.
It is not a terrorist organization to go out and cause terror and trouble.
Did you not notice the events that started this recent shit? Hamas certainly engages in terrorism, as does the IDF.
My first reaction was just “what the fuck”. I still can’t believe what I’m reading, although I probably should have. I thought the IDF was better than a mass execution of civilians, but apparently not. They really want that Nazi comparison.
OHCHR has confirmed the killings at Al Awda building, although the details and circumstances of the killings are still under verification.
From the UN report cited.
Good.
